Stop and THINK!

I was able to get away for a few days this weekend. Much need. Wish I wouldn't have come back.. missed my dogs but I have someone harassing me... Anyway, I was listening to the radio as we passed through Columbus. Some guy called into the radio station to say that his neighbor NEVER speaks to him. He always says hi and she ignores him BUT she is always putting water and food in his backyard for the dog. I seriously felt like calling the radio station and saying... DUH guy the whole reason your neighbor doesn't speak to you is b/c you have a dog chained up in your back yard!!

This is EXACTLY WHY I say stuff to people and try to educate them. If you are "angry" with the way someone is treating a dog or you feel someone is doing something wrong towards a dog you have to say something. You can't just ignore them and pretend they know why you won't talk to them. THEY DO NOT HAVE A CLUE!!!

When I see a free puppy sign. I call the number and offer assistance to people to have their female spayed and I will take the puppies and adopt them out AFTER they are fixed. When I see someone.. for example walking or standing with their dog on hot blacktop I say something about how the blacktop will burn their dogs feet. Sometimes people aren't trying to hurt their dog or be mean they just don't know.

How they heck are things for animals going to get better if people don't address the issue one situation at a time?

I spoke to a women today who said her neighbor has dogs tied up outside all the time no shelter, no water, no food. I asked her if she has spoken to her neighbor.. of course she hasn't. I told her who she needed to call and what the laws were and she said well I don't want to get her in trouble I just want the animals to be ok. I told her you can't have it both ways... animals OK but you not saying anything. You need to address the issue and if she doesn't fix the problem then call the authorities. So, the problem will get fixed.

Honestly I don't understand why you have to have a dog if all you do is have it tied up outside. I honestly would rather the people set the dog free and / or take the dog to the dog pound. At least that way it has a chance. On a chain a dog has absolutely NO CHANCE!

I realize some people have out door dogs and really that is totally fine with me. Not everyone has to believe in a dog living in the house. Barn dogs or dogs in kennel don't bother me but dogs chained REALLY bother me. That is just a horrible life for a dog and makes them so aggressive.

I wish people cared more.

No more pet stores... a girl can dream

**re post from msnbc

No pups for sale? Cities ban pet shops

Movement aims to curb puppy mills, spur shelter adoptions

	Annalysia Romero, 9, watches two dogs play in an open room at the Animal Humane New Mexico's adoption center in Albuquerque on May 25, 2010. Since retail pet sales have been banned in Albuquerque, animal adoptions at city shelters have risen 23 percent. View related photos
Craig Fritz / for msnbc.com

By Rebecca Dube

msnbc.com contributor

updated 8:27 a.m. ET, Thurs., May 27, 2010

Buying an adorable puppy or kitten at your local pet store may become a thing of the past, if more American cities join a small but growing movement to ban retail pet sales.

West Hollywood, Calif., became the latest city to put a leash on pet sales in February, when its city council unanimously approved an ordinance prohibiting sales of dogs and cats in retail stores. Albuquerque, N.M., and South Lake Tahoe, Calif., have also banned pet sales. Other cities in Florida, New Mexico, Missouri and elsewhere are considering similar bans on the sale of dogs and cats.

Animal advocates say pet store sales fuel the puppy mill industry, where dogs are bred and raised in cramped, unhealthy and inhumane conditions. They have similar concerns about "kitten factories," which are a smaller but growing problem. Efforts to crack down on animal mills have been hindered by limited enforcement resources, so ban proponents are shifting their focus from the supply side to the demand. Far better, they say, to adopt from a local shelter or buy directly from a reputable breeder.

"People have got to wake up to the fact that [most] dogs coming from pet stores are coming from puppy mills," said Mary Jo Dazey, a stay-at-home mom from St. Louis, Mo., who has been working to shut down puppy mills in her state for several years.

There are no official statistics on how many pet-store dogs come from puppy mills. Between 2 million and 4 million dogs are born in U.S. puppy mills every year, according to the Humane Society of the United States, and many of those dogs do end up in pet stores — in addition to being sold over the internet, through newspaper classifieds and in other venues.

"Every time we do a pet store investigation [after a complaint], we find that puppy mills are the suppliers," said Stephanie Shain, senior director of the Humane Society of the United States' puppy mills campaign.

Shain said she believes that if animal-lovers became better educated, they wouldn't want to buy from pet stores that may be supplied by puppy mills.

Public sentiment does, in fact, seem to be veering away from pet store animals. A recent poll by the Associated Press-Petside.com found that more than half of those surveyed planned to get their next cat or dog from a shelter, seven times the number who said they’d buy from a pet store. And four in 10 said they thought store pets could have hidden physical or psychological problems due to overbreeding or other issues.

A ‘guilt-free shopping experience’
Of course, in cities with bans in places, even if people want to buy from a pet store, they can't. The West Hollywood pet sale ban got a lot of attention, but it was more symbolic than anything else since no pet stores there were actually selling animals when it went into effect. South Lake Tahoe's ban passed in 2009, but doesn't take effect until 2011.

Craig Fritz / for msnbc.com Amanda McWilliams pets a dog she's considering adopting at Animal Humane New Mexico's new center Albuquerque on May 25, 2010. The rescue organization opened the boutique-style adoption shelter for people who want a pet but don't necessarily want to brave the city shelter.

To see what really happens when a city bans pet sales, you have to go to Albuquerque, N.M. The Southwestern city banned sales of "companion animals," including cats and dogs, in 2006, and has seen a marked, positive effect, said Peggy Weigle, executive director of Animal Humane New Mexico.

Since the ban started, animal adoptions have increased 23 percent and euthanasia at city shelters has decreased by 35 percent.

Newsvine poll

Should pet store sales of dogs and cats be banned?

“By stopping these pet shops,” Weigle said, “what you're really doing is you're reducing the demand for puppy-mill puppies.”

At the same time, Weigle said, her private animal shelter has stepped in to fill the place of pet stores for people who want pets but don't necessarily want to brave the city shelter. In February, Animal Humane New Mexico opened a boutique-style adoption center with just a few hand-picked animals — mostly puppies, many of them pure-bred dogs that were abandoned or rescued by the shelter — so that people could "shop" for shelter dogs in a pleasant, retail-like environment.

Click for related content

Most prefer pets from shelter, poll finds
Allergic, but determined to keep the cat
Dogs understand growls, even if we don't
Animal shelter turned into a ‘house of horrors’
Furry terrors: Coping with an infuriating pet

Her goal was to adopt out 45 animals in the first month; instead, they placed 118 animals in new homes. Adoptions have been so plentiful, Weigle said, that her organization is preparing to open a second adoption boutique. Weigle said she recently had a young purebred Yorkshire Terrier available for adoption for just $135, the standard adoption fee.

"Many people will say, 'Oh, I just can't go to the shelter, it's just too sad,'" Weigle said. "But if you make a guilt-free shopping experience available, and they don't have to be confronted with 100 homeless pets staring them in the face, the shopping experience is very parallel to a pet store. If you give the public a choice to shop in that kind of an environment, they will."

Focus on breeders instead?
While Albuquerque animal advocates tout their success as a model for other cities, pet store owners argue that it's not fair to take away their livelihood because of a few bad apples. They say puppy-mill and kitten-factory foes should focus instead on cracking down on breeders who are breaking the law.

"The fact of the matter is that puppies sold by pet stores frequently come from highly reputable breeders who provide healthy loving pets to the public," said Michael Maddox, vice president of government affairs and general counsel for the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council, an industry group based in Washington, D.C. "Notwithstanding isolated anecdotal stories that misrepresent pet store puppies, the vast majority of customers who bring home their canine companion from a pet store are supremely satisfied with the experience."

Dana Derraugh, owner of Le Petit Puppy in New York City, says she hates puppy mills as much as any animal lover. She specializes in small breeds suited to city life, and sells about five dogs a week from her upscale shop in Greenwich Village.

"When you go to a shelter, you don't know what you're going to get. A lot of them have emotional baggage. You're taking a risk," Derraugh said. Her clean, homey store, decorated with photos of celebrity clients like Sarah Jessica Parker, sells Pomeranians for $699, Chihuahuas for $799, and something she calls a "Chiweenie" — a Chihuahua-Daschund cross — for $950.

She gives her cell phone number to clients, so they can call anytime with questions or worries about their new puppies. "I feel like my mission is not just to sell the dog, but to hold your hand," Derraugh said.

Newsvine poll

Should pet store sales of dogs and cats be banned?

Craig Fritz / for msnbc.com A dog up for adoption peeks out of his room at the Animal Humane New Mexico on May 25, 2010.

She said she buys only from reputable breeders, though she declined to name them or say where they are located. Derraugh said eliminating pet store sales would hurt consumers by reducing competition: "The prices will go way up, there will be less puppies."

Laura Ellis, who bred collies on her farm in Vermont for 30 years before moving to New York City, said Derraugh is an example of a dog store owner who gets it right. She bought her Papillion, Penny, from Le Petit Puppy in October after researching every conceivable option.

More from PetWave

Finding the dog that's right for you
Preparing your home for a new puppy
Tips on caring for your dog
Choosing the right dog food
Puppy training tips

While she understands why some people might want to rescue a dog from a shelter, that wasn't what she was looking for, and she makes no apologies for it.

"I don't want other people's problems. I just wanted to start fresh," Ellis said.

"The main thing is, [Le Petit’s] puppies are happy. They're high quality, well run, humane. I don't see what there is to complain about," Ellis said. "It's a pretty good life for a puppy."

Rebecca Dube blogs about pets at http://paws.ly.

And it is all legal

Dear Companion Pet Lovers ~

Part one of the two-part investigative report by WHAS11 News (ABC affiliate from Louisville, KY) - >

http://www.whas11.com/news/I-Team-Investigation-Inside-the-multi-million-dollar-business-of-dog-auctions-94864294.html

We encourage everyone to crosspost to family, friends and co-workers via Facebook, Twitter and e-mail. We also recommend and encourage you post comments online!

Thanks for serving as a strong voice for the dogs!

Mary

P.S. Click here to read the scathing May 14, 2010 report on the failure of the USDA to protect breeding dogs in puppy mills.

Puppy Mills in Holmes County Ohio (re post)

Dear Companion Pet Lovers ~

Today at 6:00 p.m., WHAS11 News will show you an investigation they have been working on in partnership with the Coalition to Ban Ohio Dog Auctions for several months. The story includes coverage of nine dogs rescued from this past Saturday's sale and an assault initiated against a WHAS11 investigative team member by auction owner, Harold Neuhart! (It should be noted that several dogs from this sale were tested for brucellosis - as confrimed by East Holmes Veterinary Clinic - and two were euthanized, with one scheduled to be euthanized.)

Here's the link to the trailer - > http://www.whas11.com/news/crimetracker/The-undercover-world-of-puppy-auctions-94783994.html

Stay tuned for more details of this investigation to be mailed under separate cover!

You were loved. Always know that!

Bear was a cute little JRT mix saved from death row. He was just a pup 4 - 5 months old when he was taken from the kill shelter. Bear was lucky enough to find a WONDERFUL family who loved him more then anything in the world. He had a mom, a dad and two human brothers. What else could a dog ask for.

Unfortunately only being with his family a few short weeks Bear is no longer with us. His family is totally devastated unable to even talk about it. It is amazing how much one little dog can be so loved in such a short amount of time but yet tossed out on the streets marked to die at the shelter ;-(

The peaceful thing to know is the Bear died loved and knowing the meaning of a forever home. Although forever was not long enough at least he will have a family to pass over the rainbow bridge with.

We love you Bear Bear and you will be missed greatly by many.

Do you love your rescue dog?

How does it not bother people

How does it not bother people that 4 MILLION dogs die? I get emails after emails of dogs with days, hours left to live yet there are so many ads in the newspaper, on craigslist, selling puppies.
Pet Stores always seem to be busy I just don't understand!!!???

Look at this pictures below... when you lay your head down to sleep tonight, they will be DEAD! Pure breeds, designer dogs, mutts, ALL sizes, ALL ages, some already housebroken, some good with kids, some good with cats, all NOT AGGRESSIVE!!

T

PS. This is only 1 pound out of 88 in Ohio.......... and I didn't even add all the pictures of the dogs slated to die :-(

Trying to stay positive

I am really trying to stay positive but it isn't easy. Just seems like every time I turn around there is another JRT or JRT mix or something that needs my help. The list of dogs in need just seems to be never ending. I felt a little better last week after I was able to rescue the 4 I did and then over the weekend email after email after email about JRT's in need. Even a mom, dad and puppies. How the heck am I going to pull that off?

Adoptions seem to be some what slow too. I have people emailing me that are interested, I call them talk to them and NOTHING! :-(

I really want to help the mom, dad and puppies BUT I really don't have the room. I know darn well that some rescue will come in and take the puppies and leave mom and dad behind... puppies are much easier to adopt out. That is the only reason I am thinking about taking all of them. Just pisses me off when rescues do that.. I always say that isn't rescuing... that is taking the easy way out. Rescue isn't easy!! Jerks!

I am hoping I come out of this funk soon, it sucks. I haven't felt like this in a long long time. I mean I get discouraged yes but I really feel down.

Although as I sit here and type this sweet Ralf who had heartworm treatment is laying in bed with me (dogs per my husband aren't allowed on the bed... yet Ralf makes him self comfortable right next to my husband.. LOL) I look over at Ralf and smile.. what a sweet baby. I hope he finds an awesome home very soon. He deserves the best.

THANK YOU!

Thanks to some really great women 4, yes 4 sweet babies were saved today and will be at my house tonight. Amazing people like the ladies that helped these babies makes it all worth it.









They were marked to die and now they will be vetted (spayed/neutered, shots, flea treatment, heartworm prevention) and are up for adoption to find a deserving family.

YAY for awesome people!

Ellen and Ralf

I picked Ellen up yesterday after her bladder stone surgery. I got to see the stones they took out of her. OMG that dog had to have been in SERIOUS pain. It looked like the stones in my driveway. NO joke. The one stone was so big! There was probably handful of stones... that is a lot for one little dog.

She is feeling better and at the boarding kennel where she can heal. I worry that all the other dogs at my house will irritate the dogs that just came home from the surgery so I always board them. Makes me feel better.

I dropped Ralf off last night to start his heartworm treatment :-( POOR GUY! I can't stop thinking about him. The good news is I get to pick him up on Friday. I thought it was going to be Saturday morning. That makes me happy b/c I just want him to come home so he can start feeling better.

I have been working like crazy the last few days to try to help to get 5 dogs to safety. UGH! I wish I had / knew more people in Columbus area. It would make getting dogs from Southern Ohio so much easier.

Paws crossed for Ralf, Ellen and the 5 I am trying to save that all goes well and everyone has a happy ending.

Night Night Vito!

I received an email today from someone who adopted Louie (re named him Vito) from me in 2008. This cute little dog was just under a year when they adopted him.

He had to be put to sleep yesterday because he had a heart tumor that couldn't be operated on.







I am so sad. He was such a sweet little guy. Probably a product of some stupid puppy mill.... ugh! The tumor is totally genetic. Makes me so mad that more can't be done about people just breeding all these dogs and setting people up for heart ache. Not to mention the poor dogs that have to suffer because people are so flipping greedy. Makes me mad.

Then guess what I found out the other day. There is this jerk back yard mill breeder in MI and a few years ago my national group was trying to work with him to release a bunch of his JRT's over to rescue. Instead he killed them all and moved.

Well he moved and stated right back up again. The reason he moved was because he was getting harassed by so many people about having too many dogs. So why the hell would he just move and start over.. If I was getting as harassed as this guy was I wouldn't go back to doing it... UGH! People suck. I guess when you are criminal you are criminal and you don't care.

THEN the women who was busted in Texas a few years ago I guess is back to it again. I think there were 275 dogs taken by the state from that lady and only 180 made it to rescue or were adoptable. I took 4 in from that group and OMG what a mess. Those dogs were seriously backwards. 1 ended up jumping out of a window and was hit by a car and the other 3 were adopted. 2 are pretty normal and 1 is still very cat like.

Seriously what the hell is wrong with people?

I know I am fighting a loosing battle, I know that it would be so much easier to just give up but I can't bring myself to do it. Especially when I look into the faces of my rescue dogs. I just think how they would be dead, alone, scared, abused or God only knows what if I didn't take them in and it just kills me to think of that..

Will things ever get better?

Animal Planet Investigates: Petland' to address puppy mill allegations

On Monday May 17 at 10 p.m. ET/PT Animal Planet presents Animal Planet Investigates: Petland. The special will focus on a Humane Society's (HSUS) investigation into Petland’s alleged sale of puppies obtained from puppy mills and the subsequent lawsuit against Petland brought forth by the store’s customers.

Viewers are introduced to an HSUS undercover investigator named “Mike” who, after a dangerous investigation, discovers lengthy violations and inhumane practices at the commercial dog breeders who supply Petland. Violations included “more than 140 dogs housed in chicken-wire kennels, water bowls encrusted with mold and containing green water, pungent aromas of wet dog and one breeder's confession that she kills healthy dogs because of their less-than-stellar looks.”

Petland states emphatically that they do not purchase from puppy mills, yet “Mike” was able to find a connection between the retailers and the mass breeders.

"In our Animal Planet Investigates specials, we are committed to providing viewers with a raw and unrestricted access to crucial animal issues," says Marjorie Kaplan, president and general manager of Animal Planet. "It's our responsibility--however horrifying as it may be--to raise questions about the practice of mass dog breeding and to question whether hard profit is put before the welfare of animals."

Animal Planet Investigates: Petland also features many families who have been affected by Petland’s alleged connection to inhumane breeders.

The show is part of the Animal Planet Investigates quarterly series. Previously Animal Planet premiered Animal Planet Investigates: Dog Fighting. Animal Planet Investigates: Gang Dogs is the third installment of the series and will air next quarter.

Follow us [@thisdishisveg] on Twitter
Photo Credit: cc: flickr.com/photos/tdeering

Adoption day update

Well the adoption day didn't go that great. Figured it wouldn't. I took 6 dogs and came home with 8 LOL! I had 3 dogs transported to me on Saturday from Lucas and Putnam Counties. Luckily one got adopted and another one I believe is getting adopted tonight. So, that is good.

Not sure I mentioned but Ellen has to have bladder stone surgery. Poor baby. She goes in on Tuesday night, has surgery Wednesday.

Ralf goes for his heartworm treatment on Wed and I pick him back up on Saturday. He is not going to be happy having to "stay still" for the next 30 days. I am seriously not looking forward to that.

Nothing else is really going on as far as the dogs go. Just trying to raise money for everyone's surgeries.

I have a beagle that goes in today for spay, heartworm test, etc. I am really really nervous she is going to come out HW positive too... I am like sick to my stomach worrying about it.. I can't wait to know but at the same time don't want to know... if that makes sense. I really don't have the money to put into a 7 year old beagle who has probably lived her entire life outside... how the heck am I ever going to find someone to adopt her... ugh!

They all get adopted eventually, right? LOL!

Up and down

Well I thought things were going to slow down but NOPE! I am wrong, just when I am feeling hopeful BOOM! 5 new JRT's are coming into rescue... ugh! Seriously and I am going to put them all where?

Tomorrow I was hoping for some success at the adoption event but now I am worried because it is supposed to rain and be cold. Having a bunch of dogs inside the store where we are going is REALLY hard, being outside is so much easier. Now, if I was doing the event on Sunday CLEAR skies.

Oh and get this on someone's facebook page yesterday they posted
"FREE PUPPIES. Anyone want one?"

Apparently someone who comes into her store where she is a cashier has JRT/Schnauzer puppies he wants to get rid of. I know where she works and it is seriously 5 miles from my house.. I could SCREAM! I told her to tell the guy I would take them ALL and find them homes AFTER THEY ARE FIXED and I would fix mom at no cost to him but MOM MUST GET FIXED.

I highly doubt the stupid hill billy will go for it. OMG people make me so mad. I seriously wish I had money for bill board ads. How awesome would that be? Hey girl can dream.

2 heartworm positive dogs

I have rescued over 500 dogs and only 1 time did I have a heartworm positive dog.. Sally



Sally was a sweet dog rescued from Scioto County Dog Pound. She was some sort of collie mix and we really aren't sure how old. She was my dog for about 4 months. Sally wasn't able to be treated for heartworm b/c she also had mammary cancer like Sasha did.. only difference was Sally couldn't have surgery because of her heartworm, we couldn't treat her heartworm because of her cancer :-( It was lose lose for Sally. But really I think it was a win for her. She lived in my house like one of my dogs and was happy just hanging around the farm. She was very much loved and I think in the end she knew that. Her picture is framed in my office at work and I miss her very much.

On Tuesday I took sweet, cute, funny, loving little Ralf into the vet. He has had really bad kennel cough for about 2 going on 3 weeks now :-( Poor dog. Ralf was tied up outside for what we know of at least 6 months. He was tied up outside ALL WINTER! His family lost the house and left him there tied to the dog house with no food, no water. After 6 weeks finally the neighbor was able to get someone to come out and remove Ralf and his girl friend off the property.

Usually when I get in a dog that has been chained up they are well CRAZY! They have so much pent up anger, energy, frustration from being tied up that trying to get them to be "normal" is just very difficult. NOT RALF! He is housebroken, great off leash, comes when you call him, just the sweetest dog, doesn't bark, LOVES to play with toys and play fetch. He is just an amazing little dog.




Now poor Ralf has to have heartworm treatment :-( He will get through it and he will be fine BUT he now has to wait EVEN LONGER to find his forever home because the treatment takes at least 30 days.

You know the old saying when it rains it pours? Well then the Miami County Dog (Eddie) was taken in yesterday to be neutered. Of course they do a heartworm test first... POSITIVE! So, he too has heartworm and has to be treated and has to wait for a forever home. NOT COOL!

For under $20 a month March - October this is totally 100% preventable! Kinda like mammary cancer. The only reason dogs get it, is because people are STUPID!

Trying not to let it get to me

I love my husband, my mom, my job, my REAL friends, dog rescue, my farm and despite the fact some shitty things are going on in my life and it would really easy for me to just walk away from dog rescue. I am not going to, I am going to keep plugging away and hopefully get through this spot in my life. We all have our ups and our downs and we all have people that hurt us and people who support us. Life goes on and we get through it one way or another. It is hard when you don't see an end in sight... a light at the end of the tunnel as they say.

For all of those who I talk to daily or know me personally I am apologizing now for any strange behavior or if I seem distance. I am working through some tough times and just know I am doing what I can to get through it, to stay positive and try not to let it affect me... although we all know it does and will.

Thanks to those for supporting me and thank you to all of those who believe in me. It is your positive thoughts that will get me through this and will help me erase the negative people from my life who do nothing but bring me down.

Amazing people

I just have to say thanks to Dog Rescue I have gotten to know some really amazing people. There is a sweet little female JRT in Pickaway County who needs an exit plan and the hard work, sacrifice and dedication to dog rescue by a few volunteers has made it possible to save this little girl.

Then to make life easier I have received the address of the dog hoarder from a volunteer who had time and access to look up the address. Now, I have to find time to turn her in. LOL!

I have some great people who volunteer at the adoption event being a spokes person for the dogs. It is just wonderful.

Just amazing the people that volunteer for my group and how wonderful they are. Without them I couldn't even imagine how many dogs would be dead :-(

YAY! To all who have in the past and who currently volunteer for dog rescue all over the US and Canada too!
YAY TO YOU for being so awesome!

Adoption Day

We had an adoption event today. It wasn't all that exciting, I only took 4 dogs. My rescue friend was there too and she brought 10 dogs, 5 were adopted. So, that is a good thing.

Next weekend is the big adoption event so that is when I will have the majority of my kids there. I really hope some of these sweethearts can find a home next weekend. I just feel so bad when I have them for a long time because they are so deserving of a good home.

Next week will be a mini vacation for me. LOL! I will only have 4 foster dogs here until Wed when Martha gets picked up by her family. The 3 foster for the week. WOOHOO! Well I am working on getting the Jackson County dog, Smitty out of the shelter. If I get him then I will have 4 till Friday but still that is like a vacation. LOL!

The following week is when I am getting the female Rotti/Shepard mix from the people she was dumped on and then had 30 puppies... ugh... still makes me cringe. I just keep thinking about those 30 puppies.. well 29 because the people kept one... where are they? alive? dead? abused? having puppies? chained up outside? and now I am sick to my stomach.. I shouldn't think about it.

Well at least we are ending the cycle. THANK GOD. I did tell the lady that she has to do me a favor and that is to educate other who have un altered pets on the importance of fixing their dogs and spread the word of dog over population and how important it is for people to adopt vs. buying. She said she would. So, let's hope she means it.

I have been getting a lot of people asking me about the dog hoarder. I haven't had a chance to turn her in. I am still trying to figure out her address since it isn't on her mail box. My police friend is going to help me figure that out. Once I get that I will turn her in and I will pray that she soon decides to get the dogs homes, get them fixed and or NO MORE PUPPIES .. but the chances of that are slim :-(